Gilmore-ism.com - commentary - Comments

Oh, I see you really know

andreea.360 — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:55:46 -0700

Oh, I see you really know the star signs..
Indeed, they are a perfect match.. They would deserve some really nice flowers.. I think Canadian flower delivery would be a great choice, are you guys with me?

Not Capricorn

bella — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:40:31 -0700

No way…I think she’s an Aries (maybe a Pisces). I think Aries is MUCH MORE stubborn than Capricorn. Plus, she’s too emotional. Capricorns are notorious for being “unemotional”. I think that she’s an Aries though. Rory is a libra and she is quite the opposite of Lorelai. The show is really good at showing how Lorelai’s strengths are Rory’s weaknesses and vice versa. Not to mention, how Lorelai never finishes what she starts which is one of the red flags for spotting an Aries

Could not be more true

andreea360 — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:21:57 -0700

I don’t know her zodiac sign but I’m guessing she’s a capricorn, that is the most stubborn zodiac sign I ever met . Some of the stuff used on the show were from :Flowers for mothers

True feelings to Lorelai Gilmore

BennyCZ — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:37:32 -0800

Hi,
must say I completely agree with everything TimK wrote about women’s beauty. Me and my girlfriend (wife soon) we love watching GG, and I do not show how much the beauty of the main characters strikes me, though I’m sure she knows. And the thing about what’s exciting about a woman - completely agree!!!

Great site and great article too! Thanks a lot

What gets my ire...

TimK — Thu, 31 May 2007 06:59:49 -0700

Hi, Dani. I think what gets my ire is the suggestion that April was “just” a plot device and therefore that she ruined what was otherwise a good story. As you know, in the writing process, all plot elements start off as plot devices. But a good writer will allow only those that actually fit in with the story to actually make it into the story. And my point was that April does fit into the story, not only because she became a fully developed character, but because she invoked important changes in the other characters.

When you say “fiction needs more than ’it could happen,’” what more do you think it needs?

-TimK

I do have a few

Dani257 — Sun, 27 May 2007 16:15:07 -0700

I do have a few disagreements.

“How in God’s name can Keith know what Amy wanted when she introduced April?”

You’re right, he can’t. But, I would assume that he’s not saying he knows, he’s speculating. Just like it’s speculation when more positive reasons for April being introduced are given. It’s a view. I have my own beliefs of why certain plots or character actions or such were written. No, not being in ASP’s head, I can’t say I’m right, but if I were to analyze, I would mention those beliefs.

“Doesn’t that make April an artificial plot device. Hell, no! It would be artificial if it couldn’t have happened in the Stars Hollow universe”

Actually, I view plot devices differently. I don’t think a plot device is only something that can’t happen in the universe of the story. I read something that stuck with me and has defined how I view fiction. It was related directly to dialog, but I’ve always felt it could be expanded. In a writing book, someone wrote that fictional dialog was never supposed to imitate real life speech exactly. It doesn’t work, it makes for bad writing. It’s supposed to give the *illusion* of real life speech. And, I feel the same about plots. Sometimes the fact that it *could* happen isn’t really a good defense for putting it in a story. Not if that’s where the explanation ends. I don’t know if that’s what ASP thought, but I’m just saying fiction needs more than it could happen.

I *do* think April was somewhat of a plot device. And, I agree with the Moonlighting thing. One way I could have seen it written where I would have felt differently is if they had Lorelai and Luke working through the issues that her appearance brought. Well, it would still be something of a plot device (which isn’t a dirty word -or words) because it would be a device to show how they work through a tough issue. But, it would have eliminated the Moonlighting aspect from my views.

And, I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing to start off as a plot device. Especially since April became a character in her own right. I quite liked April, the person. I think she was introduced with a specific goal in mind, rather than because ASP had an idea for a character that she wanted to write (again, I don’t claim to know this) but she did make April a pretty believable character on her own.

Thanks, Dani. I actually got

TimK — Thu, 24 May 2007 15:19:04 -0700

Thanks, Dani. I actually got that from Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth. As you probably know, being a writer yourself, it’s a common theme in fiction. And one I wish I saw more.

-TimK

I love the part about Logan

Dani257 — Wed, 23 May 2007 22:01:03 -0700

I love the part about Logan from being a little boy to the moment he really began to grow up.

Stubborn Indeed

laurla205 — Sun, 20 May 2007 15:26:32 -0700

Rory and Lorelai are two different characters for which you really can’t compare their stubbornness, or lack of. The primary reason being that Rory is in her late teens and early twenties and Lorelai is in her late thirties (early forties for the last season or two?).

Rory is still learning who she is. In her early years she was mostly a copy of Lorelai. It wasn’t until Chilton that we saw this begin to change through the people she met and her own mistakes. Mostly because that’s where the story picked up but I think it’s fair to say that in Season 1 she was very much like Lorelai. Dean began to change her a little bit, Jess a little bit more and Logan the most. But these are mostly changes for the better, resulting in independence from Lorelai, which let’s face it they have a great relationship but it can’t be just the two of them for the rest of their lives for many reasons. And the guys (I’ll use guys because some were boys and some were men by the end of the show) were not the only ones to change Rory. Paris did, Lucy and Olivia did and I would even say Lane did a little bit. Such is the course of life, we meet people that influence us and challenge our ways of thinking and we learn about the type of person we want to be as a result. Sometimes we learn that ways other than our own are better or more appropriate sometimes we stick with the familiar. This shouldn’t stop because we hit 30, but it occurs more frequently earlier in life.

Lorelai has not seemed to learn from her mistakes or other’s opinions and ways. This has caused her to be very successful in her business life, but stunts her personal life. It is very much her way or the highway, as mentioned much like Emily, in most respects of her personal life. And that is fine while she is raising Rory. But when it comes to relationships people have to give and take. They just have to and if they don’t, their partner will never feel satisfied or like much more than a child as opposed to a partner. I relate well with Lorelai and I don’t mean to bash the character in any way I just wish we got to see a little more growth from her instead of fleeting epiphanies. Even in the end Luke telling her to take all the time she needs makes it seem as if it will continue to be her way most of the time and he can’t be happy like that for very long, certainly not for a lifetime commitment.

Right on PurpleFlippers!!

GilmoreFan001 — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:25:05 -0700

I totally agree with you, that is exactly how I feel with the situation and I couldn’t have said it better myself!!

Stuburn Lorelei IS Lorelei

purpleflippers@hotmail.com — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 05:12:26 -0700

First of all, Lorelei grew up with Emily Gilmore as a mother, what an example that is for how to be in total control of your life and everyone else’s around you. However, Lorelei has reason to be stuburn, it has given her all she and Rory have in life. Lorelei was a single mother who’s stuburnness drove her to leave her overbearing parents and not jump into a marriage which would have ended horribly for all, when she got pregnant at a young age. Through her stuburnness (which in many cases could be considered determination), she got a job and a place to live at a Inn, she later ran! She was able to bring herself from being all alone with a baby to raise, to owning her own home and having a job she loved. Now, as far as her insisting that she not give up her house, well, that is the only thing she has ever owned on her own (even the Draginfly is part Sookie’s). Also, when Luke wanted her to give up the house, was also a time when Rory and she were not speaking, and that house was a tie to the daughter she couldn’t be with. Also, (and i know this part because i’m engaged to Luke’s long lost twin!) Luke makes assumptions about what he thinks Lorelei wants him to do, and then he takes it out on her, when it’s not what he wanted!!! When Lorelei told Luke to go camping, it was because she felt she was taking him away from the things he loved (and in the end, she was right, lets not forget that!). As for the point that was made about how Rory is changed in different ways by all the people that come into her life, I feel that Rory is changed too much, too often, by too many people. Everytime she finds a sense of self, she looses it to someone (usually a guy!). She couldn’t even see that leaving Yale and forcing a wedge between herself and her mother was not the right thing to do, until Jess pointed it out to her. Then suddenly, she had a revelation, her mother who was being “stuburn” was right, and she proceeded to fix things.

I love Gilmore Girls, perhaps mostly because my mom raised me on her own, and I see alot about us in the show. I can see why and how Lorelei is set in her ways and depends on things going her way, and she is usually right (as much as I often hate to admit it,as i have gotten older i ahev realized, my mom is usually right, too). 28 years after having a baby (me!) and being all alone, she owns her own home, has a great job, and she did it all on guts, determination, and stuburnness. Based on those similarities between her and Lorelei, I would like my daighter to watch Gilmore girls and look to Lorelei as a role model, not Rory who changes with the wind!

Whoa! Insight!

TimK — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 00:25:37 -0700

Yes, Lorelai has always been afraid of change. When circumstances force her to, she will do whatever it takes to survive, even if that means changing. But she doesn’t do this willingly. Outside forces must force her into it.

Even with the Dragonfly, it wasn’t just the natural progression of her dream. All through the first 3 seasons, she was continually in planning mode. Because as long as you’re only planning, you don’t actually have to do anything that will require change. This is related to what I was talking about a couple weeks ago, the Lorelai effect: Everything is going swimmingly, until you start getting serious. Then you find a way to sabotage it.

So, you ask, how can Luke stand it? This really provoked an Ahs! moment in me.

When it comes to Lorelai, Luke lets her walk all over him, because he enjoys having her in his life. Every time he gets frustrated with her pig-headedness, he stops, takes a breath, and you can almost hear the wheels turning inside his head: Okay, this is important to her—only God knows why—so I’m going to give in, because I love her. And he does her things with her, just to be with her. And if she needs him, he’s there. He doesn’t even think about it.

Eventually in their relationship, they’re going to have to deal with this. Because there are going to be issues that Luke is not going to be willing to give in to Lorelai on. But that’s another story. Plus, I don’t know many guys who can really feel fulfilled in a relationship letting a woman overrule their every decision. (I don’t mean to be sexist. I’m only saying that’s what I’ve seen.) Somehow I don’t think Luke can, either. In their relationship, he’s going to have to find some bastion of control, where he can do what he wants without letting his woman change everything.

So, cool post, GT. Completely different style than mine. But very cool. Thanks.

hmm…some of it is better

stracciatella — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 01:18:04 -0700

hmm…some of it is better than the original (especially what lorelai says to kirk! she was waay too quiet in the original) but i don’t think lorelai would have said “this is weird”. and luke saying “this place has a lot of memories for you”…???…i don’t know… i liked that about the original, you know, the fact that it just WAS weird and that they didn’t talk about it.
but still, good job!

Hee hee

TimK — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:21:59 -0700

Hee hee. Well, I’m not a doctor, but I play one at home. (Dirty!)

Seriously, though, I notice myself not wanting to do easy things that would be really great for me. Once the hard part is behind me, it’s like— I’ve fought this hard to get here, but am I really ready? It would be debilitating if I didn’t just set that to the side and say, “I know this is the right thing. I’m going to do it, and I’ll just deal with what comes after. I know I can do that. After all, I was able to make it this far.”

-TimK

so THAT’S my problem! I

The27thGilmore — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 19:53:32 -0700

so THAT’S my problem! I have the Lorelai Effect! Wow. That makes so much sense now. Thank you Dr. Tim, you have put things into perspective for me. Maybe now I’ll get my butt in gear and salvage what’s left of my senior year.